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Boston 89, Watertown 81, Us 37, Fbi 18, Dzhokhar 17, Massachusetts 15, Cambridge 14, Russia 13, Kazakhstan 11, John 9, Lockdown 9, Deb 8, Waltham 7, Jake 6, Tom Fuentes 6, United States 5, Washington 5, Juliette 5, Norfolk 4, U.s. 4,
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  CNN    Starting Point    News/Business. The days  
   top news and events. New.  

    April 19, 2013
    4:00 - 6:00am PDT  

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in the shooting death of an m.i.t. police officer. police may believe he is one of the suspects in the boston marathon bombing. >> he should be considered armed and dangerous. it is a threat to anybody that might approach him. >> the associated press is reporting right now, we have not confirmed the associated press is reporting that both of these suspects, the one who is dead and the one on the run, they believe they're from chechnya and they moved here awhile ago. legally. that is being reported right now by the associated press. we will be reporting on that as we can all morning. we have learned that the second suspect, second suspect is dead. suspect number two on the run right now, people are told to be staying in their homes right now in the town of watertown, the surrounding towns, as well, and being told to avoid public transportation.
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it's completely shut down. subways, buses not running and amtrak not coming in and out of the city. we wanted to update you on the major developments unfolding here in the boston area. boston colleges and public schools closed. public transportation shut down. the manhunt intensifies right now for suspect number two, who is on the loose right now. people who work near the arsenal mall in watertown are being told to stay indoors. people who live in the general area, a number of towns in the general area are being told not to venture outside. stay in your houses, businesses staying closed there. at this moment police in the suburb of watertown are searching for the man believed to be the surviving suspect in the boston marathon attacks. the man who's been shown overnight wearing the white cap at the finish line. he is believed to be armed. he is believed to be dangerous. >> let's catch you up to speed. because i've been up all night reporting on this story.
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overnight shortly after 10:00 there was an armed confrontation between police and these two suspects. including the man believed to be suspect number one in the marathon attack. that man, the man with the black hat, has been killed. a short time ago police urged the public to heed their advice to stay in their homes for their own safety. >> we need your help now. we're asking everybody to shelter in place because no vehicle traffic is going to be allowed to travel in or out of watertown until further notice. no businesses will be allowed to be opened. the watertown community's always stood strong. we need them to do that today. >> this long night of violence began on the campus of m.i.t. not far from here, where that armed confrontation, a college police wasser was shot and killed by the two suspects, the very two had have been identified by the fbi just about five hours before in the press
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conference when they released the images. deb feyerick is also joining us from watertown. she has the latest. deb? >> jake, john, we can tell you this area is essentially a frozen zone. people are being told to shelter in place, to stay away from windows, stay away from doors. we're looking at a police caravan that just passed here. this was a key area, an area where a lot of law enforcement was gathering. we saw a truck. there were armed personnel on it. we saw bomb sniffing dogs from the fbi. really, the impression was they were searching for an ied. something you would see in a theater of war, in a combat zone, not here in the streets of boston. you still have a lot of personnel. some have slowly been pulling back. again, it's a very active scene that's going on right now. we don't know the status. we don't know where this individual is, whether he's close. whether he's in custody. but by creating a huge perimeter
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around this particular area, what they do hope to do is either flush him out, or at least tighten the noose. and so that's what they're trying to do. they are going door-to-door. they are canvassing different homes, they are trying to do a sweep. remember, these people, even though they were on the run, they hijacked -- they basically harnlg acked an individual and then they fled and they were still throwing out bombs we're told either bombs or grenades or some sort of pipe bomb. so that means that they're still armed. at least this individual likely still armed. the man in the white hat. that's the person that everybody's looking for. what's interesting is we've heard reports about a name. we're not reporting the name but i did speak to a global terror expert and he confirmed something that john said that is the name itself seems as if it's from the caucuses. perhaps even chechnya. a young man, that's the one they're looking for. 19 years old. a man seen in the white hat. again a lot of folks still back here. fbi, police from all over the
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state are here. they're all working to the. this is a very coordinated effort. you've got thousands of people on the ground swearing s.w.a.t. gear, tactical uniforms. they've got their assault rifles. they've got shotguns. they're heavily armed. so this is a very serious situation. again, bomb squad moving past there. also one that is large, basically you could put a bomb in and detonate that device. so it appears what they're doing right now is not only looking for this individual, but they're also looking to see perhaps if there are any devices that need to be disarmed. that's the last thing police here in boston want. they don't want a situation whereby someone unwittingly opens up a bag and a device goes off. that's part of what they're doing right now here in the watertown area. very active scene. and it's interesting, sun is up, birds are chirping. the movement that you see is either the media and law enforcement.
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jake, john? >> all right, deb, thanks so much for that. as you alluded to, the associated press right now reporting the identity of the suspects saying they are brothers from chechnya. brothers from chechnya. that again coming from the associated press. we will have more on that as more information comes in. >> at one point before we go to don lemon who is also in watertown, we can't really say this enough. if you live in watertown or the surrounding area and you're turning on your television, you don't know what's going on, the most important thing right now, stay in your home. do not leave. if you're in watertown or any of the surrounding areas. do not leave. do not even answer your door unless it is an identified police officer at the door. there is a massive manhunt going on in watertown and some of the surrounding areas, including cambridge, including waltham. do not go outside to your car unless a police officer who is clearly dressed as a police officer is instructing you to do so. suspect number two in the boston
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marathon, terrorist attack, is on the loose, and he is identified by law enforcement as a terrorist who wants to kill people. it is not known what kind of armaments he has with him. whether explosives or an assault rifle or whatever kind of weapon he might have. but he is presumed extremely dangerous. so before we even go to don lemon i just wanted to say if you live in that area, stay at home. schools are closed for the day. employers are being told not to have anybody come to work today. >> let's go to don lemon who is in watertown where all this is happening. where people are being told to stay home. what are you seeing? >> i'm looking in front of me i see law enforcement coming with flashing lights. if i look behind me, the same thing. we have seen tactical units come in and out of here. response units come in and out of here. a massive presence of police in this area. again as you guys said, you cannot get in and out of here unless you are either media or law enforcement. they're checking identification, asking everyone to stay in place in their homes, do not let
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anyone in or out. when all of this started going on, when all of this began, he they were chasing that suspect, there was a witness who saw what -- who saw said it sounded like firecrackers with all the shooting what was going on. we have more information but i want to get back to you guys. >> don lemon in watertown, massachusetts. massive manhunt that's going on right now. we also have been learning from joe johns who we'll go to in a second that one of the reasons for all the concern is it's thought that suspect number two might be wearing some sort of explosive device. joe, what have you learned? >> exactly right. and that's been the big concern. apparently the suspect who was killed, according to authorities. he did have explosives on his body. and the big concern and the reason why we're seeing this unprecedented manhunt and police going door to door, shutting down the transit system, asking businesses not to open, is
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because of the concern that the other suspect, the suspect they're looking for, may also have explosives on his body. talking to law enforcement officials just a little bit of color and background. one of the things that a couple law enforcement officials have said to me is that they were frankly quite surprised that these individuals they were looking for, actually maintained their presence in the community after this bombing occurred. and if you put the whole thing together, there was a report of a robbery this morning which would indicate at least to one law enforcement official i spoke with that the bombing had been planned very carefully, but the getaway had not been planned very carefully at all. so these individual authorities said they suspect didn't have the money to get out of the area, and that's why this
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apparent robbery may have occurred late last night, early this morning, that led to the series of events to where we are now. but most important thing, i think, that needs to be said from the perspective of a law enforcement official i've spoken with is the concern that the individual they're looking for may have explosives on his body and that's why they are telling the public to be so careful right now. back to you. >> all right, joe johns, thank you so much. i want to give this urgent bulletin from the boston police department for residents from the area in the commonwealth and charlesgate vicinity. police are going to be conducting a controlled detonation. a controlled detonation in the commonwealth and charlesgate area with all the explosives used and suspected to be around you can expect that that will happen until the suspect has been apprehended and perhaps even after he's been apprehended. people are worried about any package left on the side of the road and there are going to be a
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lot of controlled detonations, i would suspect. juliette, you're here. you're a boston globe columnist and a former official with the department of homeland security both in the federal government in d.c. and also here in massachusetts. this is what you would expect. >> we're going to have a long time of these volled detonations, luggage left in one place, a bag left in another. it's going to feel kind of crazy to everyone watching and maybe we don't need to go to all of them. this is what the police do. they see these things and detonate them to make sure that they're safe. there are a lot of bags in any city and the city is on high alert. that's going to be natural. the chances are that all of these are going to be nothing, and this is just the normal routine. >> i want to point out for the cameras. you've been talking about how they're going to be fanned out and stopping transit because all public transportation has closed in the boston area and they're getting on this bus that is not in service and fanning out
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throughout the city. >> this was an incident command and they were clearly getting directions of where they were going. this is how organized, you know, sometimes public safety can look really disorganized. a lot of times it's quite organized. this is what's happening. they met. they're going to go somewhere. that's towards newton. this is where i lived. this is what these people trained for for a lot of time. it's going to be a really crazy day for the next couple hours until suspect number two is caught and we should anticipate that. >> live pictures i believe right here in boston of door-to-door searches going on right now. expanding area. we knew they were happening in watertown. police going door to door looking for suspect number two who is on the run right now. and again, i should say the associated press is reporting that both of these suspects, one and two, the two men believed to have carried out the boston marathon bombings, the associated press is reporting
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they believe they were brothers from chechnya. why i want to bring in tom fuentes right now, former assistant director from the fbi, cnn analyst. tom the associated press reporting brothers from chechnya. when you hear that, what does that mean? >> well, unfortunately it means islamic fundamentalist terrorism. chechnyans have been engaged in the battle with russia to try to break away because of the predominantly muslim regions in the southwestern area of russia. and they feel that they would like to have been separated. so they've been fighting with russia for decades to try to become an independent country. and they've committed many, many terrorist acts in russia. for a long time. of course we remember the bedouin school incident in russia in 2004. we remember the airplanes blown out of the sky over russia also in 2004. the opera house incident where more than 20 chechen terrorists took over the russian opera house, held about 800 people
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hostage. before that incident was over, hundreds were killed in trying to resolve that. chechnya has been kind of a training ground before afghanistan and iraq for militants to go and kind of cut their teeth on how to fight and how to learn how to fire weapons and make explosives and all of that. in recent times it's been reported that the chechen militant militants have now gone to syria to aid the rebels in the syrian civil war that's going on right now. we just don't know at this point. we don't know if both suspects end up killed, but it could be that these individuals are upset. that maybe the u.s. is also seen as an enemy in terms of not providing support to the rebels in area to the degree that they would like. and they think, therefore, the u.s. is, you know, helping the regime stay in power, let's see, or helping their brothers get killed over there.
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we don't know that. but there have been many -- the terrorism issues out of chechnya have been going on for decades. >> and we should make clear that the associated press reporting the boston police, brothers from chechnya. also possible that they're from the wider caucasus area which is the same general area over there and the same general concerns over terrorism. >> if this is true, and we don't know any background right now so it's relevant only because they're not home grown and that is relevant. they are not home grown. and in other words they got here somehow, through either immigration or lawfully or unlawfully. they stayed here. they planned it. they lived here. they possibly lived in cambridge or in the summerville area which is where i live, and then they sort of they went after what's not a soft target, but a low grade target like the boston marathon. lots of activity, not something very hard to do. for those of us in the field, we've always wondered sort of
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why isn't that happening more, because we've gotten so fortified. we've anticipated it. and if this is true, this is it, i want to tell everyone, though, the good news is that i know it's hard to believe in good news, is these are terrorists who cannot plan a major event. so while monday was devastating, the successes of our counterterrorism efforts have made these sort of, you know, sort of like whack-a-mole is how we described it in government, sort of brothers getting together and planning an event. so there is going to be a lot to learn. how did they get here? how did they stay here? and it is, you know, it is something that we haven't seen since 9/11. >> a lot going on tonight. a lot going on overnight and this morning as we said. this manhunt under way at this very moment. let's go to washington right now. brianna keilar. what has the president been told? >> he is up to date on what's going on there in boston and watertown, john. he was briefed overnight as this situation developed by his
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homeland security and counterterrorism adviser lisa monaco. the white house is in very close contact with the fbi, as well. while the white house is monitoring the situation right now, don't expect president obama or the white house is really be interjected into this at this point. obviously this is very much an evolving situation. a fast-moving situation. we're not really expecting to hear anything of substance from the white house, i would say, until this sort of comes to a conclusion. again, president obama up to date overnight, and this morning on what's going on there in boston. in newtown. he will continue to monitor the events there. >> all right, thank you very much, brianna keilar at the white house for us this morning. again, president obama just here yesterday lifting the spirits of boston as part of that memorial service. very different morning as the manhunt for one of the suspects is very much under way. >> to bring you up to speed,
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there is a manhunt under way for one of the two suspects in the boston marathon terrorist attack. the first suspect was killed overnight in a shoot-out with police officers. it began on the campus of m.i.t. in cambridge, where a police officer has been killed, there was a carjacking and a chase ensued. one of the suspects, the one with the black hat, suspect number one, has been killed. suspect number two is on the loose in watertown, massachusetts. >> could be watertown. >> or the surrounding area. earlier john and i spoke to the doctor, and there also was a press conference at the hospital where suspect number one was taken. >> multiple injuries. probably we believe a combination of blast, potentially gunshots. >> how many gunshots? >> unable to determine. >> multiple gunshots? >> yes. and probably a blast injury, also. >> blast meaning what? >> an explosive device, possibly
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shrapnel, thermal injuries. it was pretty much throughout the trunk. multiple wounds. >> would it be consistent with [ inaudible ] >> unclear. i think the medical examiner will be able to kind of conclusively say that. but there were signs of more than just gunshot wounds. >> that was one of two doctors who spoke with reporters where suspect number one was taken with mortal wounds. he died after being killed in a shoot-out with police. the doctor said that the suspect had both burns from an explosion and also gunshot wounds. would not say which actually were the reason that he had died. actually very reluctant to go into any detail at all. when john and i interviewed one of the doctors afterwards, we asked if he was wearing any sort of suicide vest, explosive device, and the doctor would not say. although joe johns, our law and justice correspondent did say it is a big suspicion that suspect number two is wearing some sort
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of explosive device because suspect number one was also wearing an explosive device. earlier, this event has been going on throughout the night. we saw an innocent man, who was suspected by police of having been part of this criminal escapade, this terrorist attack, and they made him take off all his clothes before they arrested him. because they were presumably worried that he had an explosive on him. suspect number two still at large. >> which is why there is so much concern this morning. why which is why the subways and buses have been shut down. all colleges in boston and surrounding towns have been closed for the day. classes canceled. and it's why public schools have been canceled and why people in surrounding towns have been told to stay home and businesses told to remain closed today. the investigation and manhunt for suspect number two is really does continue to grow minute by minute here.
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police s.w.a.t. teams going door-to-door in watertown. they're asking people to stay home, lock your doors. do not answer your doors unless you see a bona fide law enforcement official outside. >> this is an ongoing investigation. we can't get into details on the descriptions of the suspects or the names. we're trying to get information out to the people who live here, that they should stay in their homes, and not open their doors unless police officers are there. there's a 20 block perimeter around the location that chief devoe just talked about. we are concerned about securing that area and making sure that this individual is taken into custody. we believe this to be a terrorist. we believe this to be a man who's come here to kill people. >> if you're just joining us, there was a shoot-out overnight. and suspect number one in the boston marathon attack killed. suspect number two on the loose. we're going to take a look at some amateur video from the
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shoot-out last night in watertown, massachusetts. >> as we said, residents in watertown are being told to stay inside, no cars being allowed in or out of watertown right now. that town really under complete lockdown. other towns in the area, people told to stay at home and businesses to remain closed, and in this manhunt, the web of this manhunt really expanding this morning. i'm joined by juliette kayyem, former homeland security official, tom fuentes, former assistant director of the fbi and cnn analyst is with us as
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well. as the minutes passed this morning and the hours go on, tom, is it easier or harder to find this suspect? >> i think in the long run it will get easier as they narrow down or eliminate other places that he could be but they discover that he isn't. certainly having the identities of the individuals, and that gives them a starting point of the addresses, and as brothers, you know, if they live together, they would be having a couple of addresses, not one main one, to be able to focus on a little more intensely just randomly starting to go apartment to apartment in all the neighborhoods. >> it would seem that they may have this person in somewhat of a containment. but again it's clear that the strategy that the two brothers changed from monday committing the terrorist act but being able to walk away from it on their own. not martyring themselves at that
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time but maybe starting last night, they were ready to martyr themselves. and maybe that was part of the plan all along, is commit one act, and when the police close in, take as many policemen out, go out in a blaze of glory, and we've seen that with terrorists that have done that in other locations. i know a group in madrid when they had al qaeda cornered in an apartment, they had a huge shoot-out and eventually the apartment burned down. that could have been their intent when they got ready for martyrdom it was suicide by cop. with cops, as well. >> now at this point, cnn cannot independent verify the identity or the origin of these two men, the suspects involved in the boston marathon bombings, and now this shoot-out and car chase last night. one thing we do know is they didn't get very far. >> right. what we do know, and sort of taking a bigger lunge here is that they stayed here, which is unique. they seem to have limited
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resources. they tried to rob the 7-eleven, one of them did, so that suggests not a lot of expertise, at least on thinking through how they were going to get away, and it also suggests that they may not have access to a lot of money or resources. those pieces are being put together. but we can't know simply by what's going on around us right now did they have contact elsewhere. did they have people funding them? none of that can be known. they clearly were desperate for means tonight. or last night. because that's when this all started. trying to get money, trying to get food. and trying to get out of town. >> i just want to show amateur video of the shoot-out last night in watertown, massachusetts. police having a shoot-out as they pursue the two suspects in the boston marathon terrorist attack. one of those suspects, suspect number one, the one in the black hat in the photographs that the fbi released yesterday
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afternoon, late afternoon, certainly after 5:00, he is dead. he was shot, mortally wounded in watertown, taken to beth israel hospital and pronounced dead at the scene. he was thought to have been wearing an explosive device, according to law enforcement was sos or having some sort of explosives on him. which is one of the reasons why suspect number two, for whom there is a tremendous manhunt in watertown and the surrounding areas, is also presumed to be extremely dangerous and perhaps also wearing an explosive device. >> or on his body. we're not quite share of the nature of the explosive device right now. but with him, near him, on him. it is a major concern. >>if you are in watertown, massachusetts this morning you are being instructed by law enforcement to stay at home. to not answer your door unless it is a clearly identified police officer. if you live in the boston area, if you are in one of the surrounding towns, waltham or cambridge, you are also being told that you should stay at home. they do not know exactly where suspect number two is.
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public transportation in the boston area has been shut down and colleges and universities are shut down for the day. as well. a lot of employers are being told not to have their businesses open today. this is a day, obviously, you should be in contact with your place of work. but presumably it might be a day that you want to stay at home because there is a massive manhunt going on for suspect number two. presumed to be a terrorist, according to law enforcement, a terrorist who wants to kill people in boston. innocent people. this all began monday at the boston marathon. last night it exploded with a police officer killed at m.i.t. we're going to go to don lemon who is in watertown, massachusetts. don, what's the latest there? >> we have seen a number of other buses come in packed with police officers presumably from the boston police department. they've been coming in all morning. also speaking to officers telling everyone here to be careful. to be safe, because if this guy
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is here he's going to feel trapped, and they are going to believe, armed and dangerous. someone who is feeling trapped that way, they're not sure exactly what he will do. you just saw moments ago they have been busing police officers from all over the area to come in. we just saw two busloads and there's more police officers coming in and out of here. tactical units. they believe that it's about a 20 block range here. essential to where they're going. also being told by one of their photographers, at nichols avenue, he's been seeing dogs going in and out of the area, a s.w.a.t. team. also according to him a chemist. they believe there's an intense interest in this area, again this is in watertown. watertown on complete lockdown. residents being told to stay in their homes, do not go anywhere. not to go far. coming out of their homes in coats and pajamas and running
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right back into their homes. again on complete lockdown. we have officers coming in and out of here from different municipalities, busloads of them to try to track down this suspect, guys. >> all right, don lemon in watertown, massachusetts. what seems to be sort of the center right now of this ongoing investigation. this ongoing manhunt with the breaking developments overnight. >> i'm john berman here along with jake tapper. if you are just waking up right now we want to bring you up to date on the major developments that have been happening in boston, and the entire area. a door-to-door search is under way at this moment in watertown, massachusetts. as police look for the man identified by the fbi as suspect number two in the boston marathon bombings. this follows, this follows an intense night. a night of violence that began with the fatal shootings of an
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m.i.t. campus police officer. next came a carjacking. police say the two suspects in the boston marathon bombing, these two suspects, were in the car, there was a shoot-out with police in watertown. >> during the course of that pursuit, several explosive devices were discharged from the car at the police officers. in the exchange of the gunfire we believe that one of the suspects was struck and ultimately taken into custody. a second suspect was able to flee from that car and there is an active search going on at this point in time. >> the man identified by the fbi as suspect number one, suspect number one, was shot and he later died after being taken to the hospital. we've also learned that two suspects in the attacks are brothers. we suspect they are brothers right now. again, police believe that suspect number two, photographed monday in a white baseball cap,
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is now on the loose in or near waitertown, massachusetts. public transportation has been shut down in and around boston. 1.3 million people use public transportation every day. all colleges and schools are closed as police continue this manhunt. >> it's been an incredible night. it started earlier in the evening yesterday, late afternoon, shortly after 5:00 when the fbi released photographs of the suspect. suspect number one in the black what, suspect number two in the white hat. whether that shook the tree, smoked them out, had anything to do with what happened next, we don't know. but about five hours later on the campus of m.i.t., a police officer was killed, there was a shoot-out and now a massive h manhunt. earlier we heard from a witness who told us how they heard explosives. >> we thought we heard firecrackers so me and my son looked out our third floor window and we heard gunshots,
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and then we saw the explosion. actually saw a black suv come down laurel street, cross over, look like it hit a police car and then they were just shooting at that. we must have heard about 60 gunshots. >> a city under siege to a large degree. amtrak between providence and boston temporarily suspended. public schools closed. colleges and universities closed. don lemon is in watertown. what is happening where you are? >> basically complete lockdown here. i think members of the media who have covered stories like this for years have gone by what's going on here. again, on lockdown. they're telling people not to leave their homes. and if someone comes to your door make sure you know who it is. if it's a police officer, let them in. but again, talking to police officers here in the area, they're saying listen, they believe they know who this person is, obviously.
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they have an identification. they know how old he is. they know that he is armed and dangerous. they know he threw explosives out of the car as he came here. what they've told us is to be completely careful and to be on the lookout because this person is probably trapped in this area. with this much police presence they don't believe that he could get out. they're telling us if they come out, if they have those long rifles as they supposedly have, who knows what exactly they may start doing. just moments ago we saw a couple bus lodes of police officers coming in from the boston area, and from other municipalities. we've been seeing that all morning. the presence of police cars, tactical units, bomb squads coming into this area. they believe it's about a 20 block area in watertown but they're not exactly sure. there's one specific area, nichols avenue, our photographer who is there, said they've seen a bomb sniffing dog going in and out. there's a s.w.a.t. team there and a chemist in there. i guess someone who is familiar with chemicals who is looking
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over material and the property there. so again watertown, complete lockdown. not just watertown, we're told brighten, newton, waltham, watertown, belmont, cambridge. basically most of the suburbs surrounding boston on lockdown because of this one man who is believed to be in that white cap in the video that you're seeing there. one man who is armed and dangerous, and we know that is involved, with a police shooting, a police officer at m.i.t. this morning. one police officer dead again after they left that scene, throwing explosives out of the car, coming here and one of the suspects being shot, as well. we're here unprecedented. this town on lockdown. on high alert. residents are staying in their homes. those who are venturing out. some of them we saw going into dunkin' donuts, going in to get breakfast, come out and run right back into their homes. others walking their dogs a short distance and going right back in their homes, as well. transportation on lockdown. no one getting in and out of
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boston by bus or by train. and even some sections of amtrak between boston and surrounding areas have been shut down as well. you see the large presence there. the live pictures on your screen of those tactical units in and around the watertown area. jake? >> all right. don lemon in watertown right now. in some ways at the center of this investigation. but it's clearly grown much larger with public transportation in and out of boston being shut down and people in surrounding towns being told to stay home, as well. that's the national guard driving through the streets right now in these armored humvees. they're in watertown right now. that's where they're going door to door in the search for these suspects. we should also tell you with all these developments overnight we're expecting a news conference from law enforcement at 9:00 eastern time. we will get more information then. obviously we'll bring that to you live. that's a long ways from now. there could be a lot more that happens before that happens.
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meanwhile we have deb feyerick. what's the latest? >> okay. well i've got some new information. this information has been cleared. and we're now going to tell you some details about the brother in the black hat. the one who is dead. first of all they do believe that he was killed by explosives. he may have had those explosives on his body. i'm being told by a terrorism analyst who's been briefed on this, the older brother, apparently went to brooklyn community -- i'm sorry, went to bunker hill community college, i apologize. the family left chechnya several years ago and went to kazakhstan. okay, they went to kazakhstan before being granted permission to come to the united states. the older brother went to bunker hill community college, bunker hill community college. he had ambitions to become an engineer but he took a year off from school in order to box. so that's what we know about him. we are being told that they know people here in the boston area, and those people are being
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looked at now. there's a big question as to whether these brothers were able to remain hidden for the three days that they were essentially on the run, whether they, in fact, did that by themselves. i'm also told that the older brother, the one in the black hat, posted on his website, quote, i don't have a single american friend, i don't understand them. so that is what we are learning so far. the younger brother now on the run. he is alone. he has been awake since midnight. and so they are clearly engaged in a very active search for this individual. his brother, as i've said, was killed. he had explosives on him. whether he self-detonated or whether they were detonated during the car chase, very unclear. an autopsy has to be conducted. a very, very heavy presence here. though we are learning more about the identity of the man who was killed last night just around mt need. his brother now, the younger
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brother, on the run, still being looked at. law enforcement going door-to-door. they are making sure that there are no other devices, not only looking for him, but they want to make sure that there are no other devices that are out there that could potentially injure anyone. this is really moving very, very quickly on many different levels. but once again, just to reiterate the older brother, he didn't drink, didn't smoke, said quote i don't have a single american friend, i don't understand them. he was a college student at bunker hill community college, with aspirations to be an engineer. that's what we know so far. jake, john? >> deb, that's some great reporting. just to recap what you said. the older brother, suspect that that's the one who has been killed. suspect number one with the black hat, went to bunker hill community college. he and his younger brother, who is suspect number two in the white hat, who is on the loose in watertown, or the surrounding area, those two and their families fled chechnya, then the
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family went to kazakhstan. and of course then they ended up here in the boston area. deb, do your law enforcement sources have any information about what exactly the molt vags was? i mean it sounds to me like a classic story of radicalization. but you didn't say that so i don't know. what is the motive that you are suggesting or your law enforcement sources are suggesting? or is there not one yet? >> they're not suggesting any motive. the one thing we do know, and very dangerous, we don't want to go on this path, but because they are in chechnya, chechnya is largely muslim. we do know that the brothers are muslim. that they are islamic. so we don't know just to what extent, whether they were radicalized at some point. but again, that could potentially be a motive. but right now nobody is making the connection. they're just telling me that yes, they're islamic. >> all right. deb feyerick, thank you so much for that.
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i want to bring in -- i'm sorry. john, do you have a question for deb? >> one of the things we've been trying to figure out as thises progressed is the suspect, this brother, from kazakhstan or perhaps from another part of the characters aous. >> now we're being told they are from chechnya and went to kazakhstan. again they may have moved. it's unclear. just want to take a quick look right here. another bus. they're bringing people out. law enforcement in. these gentlemen who are in that bus, they're dressed in full riot gear. it does appear they were from chechnya. that they fled during the conflict, went to kazakhstan and then made their way here to boston. did they come to boston because they knew somebody? somebody who was able to give them help them withs visas? that we don't know.
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>> let's bring in chad sweet, former chief of staff with the department of homeland security also a former cia officer, co-founder and ceo of the chertoff group. also tom fuentes, juliette kayyem here. a lot of information here first and foremost the brothers believed to be from chechnya. let's start with that. >> couple points. one is, if they're in, fact, students at bunker hill college, there's the student immigration visa data base which will follow things like we'll know exactly their bigraphic information. there will have been fingerpr t fingerprints provided for the application. which will not only allow us to do forensics on the post-blast investigation but tie it from an evidentiary point of view to prosecute them. it will also be interesting to see as suggested before, we'll be able to zero in behind the scenes right now, all the focus is on tightening the noose
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around him. there's a lot of work that's being done behind the scenes that the american public doesn't see on going to the residence. right now i suspect his apartment is being forensically checked as well. there's going to be a lot more information coming forward in the next few hours. >> juliette, bunker hill community college, it's clear, he may be from chechnya via kazakhstan but he was living, existing here, studying to be an engineer. >> we had always believed that this was a boston-based attack simply because it seemed like the culprits probably built the bombs here. they probably walked over. they knew the marathon. so a lot of this is not shocking. although very, very surprising. and i would also add what we don't know and chad made this point is they came from another country. and they were here as bunker hill college, which is a very good community college here. what we don't know is, do they have ties to an international
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terrorist organization or any other international organization? or are they just brothers who planned this on their own because they have some belief? it's the difference between a masterminded terrorism attack like how we thought about 9/11 and these sort of low-grade, you know, to be honest sort of crazies who plan these kinds of events. that's relevant because that will tell us where the investigation is going to go. what other countries have been involved with it and sort of the international implication of that. that we don't know. that we should reserve judgment on whether they were acting alone or had ties to a larger organization. right now, obviously, we're chad makes a great point. there is a huge other piece to this. no one has seen, which is all the ties that these two brothers had here in boston, and whether that leads us to any more knowledge about them. but right now, all we know is that they planned this, who else they were aligned with, we don't know. >> one could argue that
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obviously, you're not arguing to the contrary, the self-radicalized individuals like nidal hassan, the fort hood shooter, are the ones that are the biggest risk for this country right now because intelligence has been so good and the united states has made so many changes post-9/11 to people, for wouldnnt of a bette term, bad guys out of the country. individuals in the country radicalize themselves some way. hasan is said to have reached out to anwar al awlaki and radicalized himself. >> that's what we just don't know right now. and that is, that is a great point. what we do know is that they tried to rob a 7-eleven. so that is sort of good news in the sense that it doesn't seem like they were had some major backing to get them out of here. mastermind terrorists are not do that. they have an exit strategy. so we're just putting the pieces together live, and just, you know, sort of trying to figure out whether there's a major
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international terrorist plan here, or is it two brothers who planned this on their own? >> let's go to tom fuentes, a cnn analyst and former assistant director with the fbi in washington. i think juliette has a good point, tom. i really enjoy hearing your thoughts. the fact that we're told that the brothers went to knock up -- knock over, rather, a 7-eleven to rob it, that that's apparently one of the things that they did last nooirt. the fact that they clearly did not seem to have any elaborate exit strategy or help escaping. although we still do not know whether it was just the two of them. but if it was more than two it wasn't some big network. that would seem to be a small sliver of good news in this horrible, horrible story. >> that's right. it would indicate that they weren't being supported overseas or sent here to commit an act over here. they came, and as juliette mentioned earlier, came here and then later self-radicalized and decided to commit the act. that could be the result.
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if it's true, about the posting on the web page that they came, intended to go to school and study and get a degree but failed to assimilate and later got frustrated, that may have contributed to the thought patterns to do this. i'd like to add one other point, in canada in 2006, there was a group of terrorists later called the toronto 18 and they have been tried and convicted and in prison. but one of the leaders of that group studied in mechanical engineering at a toronto college and then he made a recruiting video where in the video he's got a toaster in his living room, wires it up, and is able to create a remote detonator off of a cell phone. he's self-taught, plus internet, plus his college training. but it together because of that engineering course and was able to make the device and create the cell phone detonating mechanism to initiate that. as i said, the police later got that videotape because he was showing the tape to other potential applicants to prove how good he was and that he'd be
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able to do that. i would be very curious of what courses either brother attended and whether they were able to learn the skills that they need, or enhance with internet reading, and amateur cookbook whether or not they were able to put that together and teach themselves as a result how to make those devices that exploded at the marathon. >> it's a really key question. we want to go to joe johns in our washington bureau right now. you have some reporting on the plan of these brothers. >> well, we do have some information. we have a little bit more information but i wouldn't call it a plan. talking to law enforcement officials, they're still in the stage of asking questions. just where these individuals may have learned how to make bombs like this. who was it that taught them? did they learn by themselves?
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or did they get information from overseas? and what motivated them? what specifically motivated them? these are all the questions authorities are asking. and of course, there's a concern about the explosives. we do know this one individual apparently had explosives on his body. one of the big questions is whether the explosives on his body were detonated by him, were detonated by police shooting at him. or perhaps he was even run into by a car is one thing that's been suggested to me. as far as the plan, i can't give you that much information, because the authorities have not told me. back to you. >> all right, joe johns, thank you so much. you know, this attack was obviously planned at some level. the attack was here at the finish line of the boston marathon bombings. but the get away seems to be a little less meticulous. i want to bring back in chad sweet. what is your opinion of what
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happened? not monday but after monday? >> i think as juliette said before when law enforcement and counterterrorism officials study this in the years ahead, this will be a case study on the right way to do this. 21st century counterterrorism where essentially law enforcement and counterterrorism waited to show the public the photos. that allowed these suspects to essentially get comfortable that they thought they would be able to stay within the perimeter. they only released the photos, essentially last evening at 5:15 and what we saw was immediately post that posting all of these events have unfolded. some of them we don't know could have been tipped off by public crowd sourcing where the public was brought in on this. it could have been that they panicked at that point and decided to flee which led them to become sloppy. i think a couple other points that juliette noted which were excellent, if we look at how they conducted themselves throughout this process, it's
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amazing to watch the missteps, you know, the things like sticking within the perimeter. if you think about to faisal mo incident to the moment of apprehension, was just about 55 hours. but we caught him literally on the plane, pulling away from jfk airport. these two could have blended into society and we never would have caught them. this is the fantastic away of the right way to do it. the city of boston, a role model for the nation. they continued to operate around the city in a normal fashion for the most part. airports open, et cetera. when the right moment came, that's when the lockdown came. demonstrating to the nation, this is how you do counterterrorism. you remain resilient and do
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full-court press only at the moment when you have the relevant information. >> looking at live pictures i believe from watertown. where this massive manhunt is going on. there will be a press conference later on this morning, possibly involving deval patrick. details forthcoming. if you are just joining us, it's been quite a night with one of the suspects in the boston marathon terrorist attack killed in a shoot-out with police, possible he was killed by an explosive device that he was holding on his person, second suspect in the boston terrorist attack, the second suspect, the younger brother of the first, according to great reporting from deborah freierick, the
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other suspect went to bunker hill community college. the younger brother, still at large, thought to be in watertown. the two came from chechnya, stopped in kazakhstan before coming to the united states. >> the older posted on the facebook. >> i don't have a single american friend. i don't understand them. i don't drink, don't smoke. waiting for more information on what exactly motivated them. we're picking up clues as to what was going on with them. most importantly for people watching right now. watertown, massachusetts, if you are in watertown or the surrounding area, do not leave your home. stay at home. unless there is an identified -- cleared identified police officer who comes to your door, do not open your door. stay there. there is a massive manhunt for what the law enforcement community calls a terrorist who wants to kill people in your
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area. that's not just watertown, but the surrounding areas of waltham and cambridge as well. and someone who is hunkered down right now in her home in watertown is danielle teminino, what's it like the last few hours as you have been locked in? >> pretty frightening. we have heard sirens come by every couple of minutes. 45 minutes ago we actually -- my husband caught out of the corner of his eye, somebody running past our parking lot. wearing a blue hoody and carrying a backpack and we -- you know, we're a couple of blocks away, so it seems like it might not have been the guy, but who is outside? we called 911 and we were both sort of huddled by the window. what is this that we even have to be doing this right now? it's surreal.
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so it's hearing the fire engine is a little jarring, at the same time, we're watching -- right now, we can see all the police coverage and all of the law enforceme enforcement. a tank on the screen, it's amazing how our government could bring that. we feel very unsafe and they are really trying to keep us safe. but we're far enough from downtown boston that i'm just sort of surprised that they are there at all. to me, it would seem to be a place that something like this would with happen, so far from the center of boston. >> we have a one-minute warning. danielle, stay safe. stay inside. in one minute, we understand we will see a news conference from deval patrick, now in watertown right now. we have so much to learn about
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the activities going on overnight there and in the surrounding towns as well. to bring you up to speed again. subways, buses, shut down. schools closed. manhunt under way for suspect number two in the boston marathon attack. one two of brothers we now know who came from chechnya, via kazakhstan, the older brother dead. killed in a shoot-out last night. a student at bunker hill community college, studied engineering there. the younger brother, on the run. manhunt under way for him. some concern that he could have explosives with him. why? well, because the brother who did die had explosives on him. >> according to a law enforcement source. when we talked to the doctor at beth israel hospital, where suspect number one was taken, mortally wounded, where he died, the doctor would not tell us whether it was the explosion, or the gunshots, that killed
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suspect number one. suspect number two, the younger brother, still at large, and if you are in watertown, are you told to stay inside your house, or the surrounding areas, told to stay inside your house. do not open the door unless it's a clearly identified police officer. this evening ban quite shockingly just at 5:00 or 5:15, when police and law enforcement officials, the fbi released photographs, images of these two suspects, enlisting the help of the public in this pursuit of these two individuals, suspected of being responsible for the boston marathon terrorist attack. after that, five hours later, a shoot-out on the m.i.t. campus. a campus officer killed, a shoot-out, a transit authority officer was killed, and the two brothers, the two suspects, suspect number one and number two, pursued to watertown. suspect number one killed, presumably in the fire fight with police officers, but may
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have been from the explosion. suspect number two on the loose. >> one more piece of information. it does appear that suspect number two has been in the u.s. for at least a couple of years. which is interesting. this man, of course, on the run right now. manhunt under way, centered in watertown, but surrounding towns -- people in surrounding towns told to stay in their home, be safe. businesses closed. subways and buses not running in and out of boston. amtrak not running. all of the local colleges in the great college town, none of them are having classes today and to bring you the latest reporting, as we await this news conference. the latest reporting comes from our terrific reporter, deborah ferrick, who are the amazing suspect, one dead, one alive from chechnya. they fled chechnya, fled to kazakhstan, ended up in the united states. the older brother a student at
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bunker hill community college where he studied engineering. at one point posted on facebook he did not have a single american friend. he said he did not understand them. >> we're waiting for a press conference and are you lookiyou at live images from watertown. that's eight miles from downtown boston. two blocks away from the site of the terrorist attack at the boston marathon finish line on monday morning or monday afternoon rather and now it is early friday morning, and we have been up all night covering this event. there was a shoot-out on the m.i.t. campus. two brothers pursued to watertown. one of the brothers killed. that is the older brother, younger brother is still on the loose. and police are attempting a dragnet, attempting to find him somewhere in watertown or the surrounding areas. if you live in watertown or the surrounding areas, ranging from waltham, all the way east to cambridge, you are advised to
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stay inside your home. we are awaiting the press conference any minute now. >> as we said, we are suspecting it any minute. stay with us. welcome back, everyone. we are learning more about the boston marathon bombing suspects at this very minute. law enforcement say they are brothers from chechnya. the city of boston on lockdown this morning. state of high alert all around here. public schools are closed as is public transportation and amtrak service is shut down into the city. the manhunt for suspect number two. he is the one wearing the white cap in surveillance pictures. we have a news conference. >> a couple points i want to make and then i would ask commissioner davis from boston and then colonel alvin from the state police to make a
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statement. we are not going to take questions this morning. i know have you a lot of questions. we have obviously a rapidly developing situation during the course of the night. i have been briefed throughout the night. i think you know the basics. suspect one is dead. suspect two on the run. we have an nbta officer seriously wounded and in surgery right now. we have an m.i.t. security officer who has been killed. there is a massive manhunt. -- there is a massive manhunt under way, a lot of law enforcement involved in that. to assist that we have suspended all service on the mbta. that will continue until we think it's safe to open all or some of that. we are asking people to shelter in place. in other words, to stay indoors with their doors locked and not to open the door for anyone other than a properly identified
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law enforcement officer and that applies here in watertown, where we are right now, also cambridge, waltham, newtown, belmont and at this point, all of boston. all of boston. this is a -- a serious situation. taking it seriously. we are asking the public to take it seriously as well. and with this law enforcement by following those simple instructions. we have every asset we can possibly muster on the ground right now. they are doing a terrific job, working in concert with each other. we need the public help us help them to stay safe. >> thank you. >> thank you, governor. as the governor said, this is a rapidly developing situation. in the last half hour we received information that i have communicated to mayor menino. mayor menino asked me to come here, and tell you that the
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shelter in place recommendation has been extended throughout the city of boston. there is a lot of information coming in. we are working very closely with federal authorities in washington. we are examining all databases. all potential leads and officers moving around the city right now. please be patient with us. work with us. if you see anything suspicious, let us know. we are trying to make this safe as quickly as possible. but this is an ongoing situation. i want to stress that. this is an ongoing situation. >> colonel timothy alvin. first, i want to say thank you to each and every one of you. you got the message out to the neighborhood. i have to ask to you continue to do that. our number one priority right now is with the neighborhoods here in watertown and making them safe and finding this individual. that's what we're committed to, we need more time, we're making significant progress up there. but it may take hours to do this. so please bear with us. i know that there is a lot of
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questions and we'll have plenty of time to address those after this. for right now, this is about public safety this is about watertown neighborhood. so please give us that leeway. we'll be back shortly. thank you. >> thank you. >> you were just watching leave press conference in watertown, massachusetts, which was ground zero of a massive manhunt for one of the suspects in the boston marathon terrorist attacks on monday. we just heard from tim albin, the chief of massachusetts boston chief, we heard from deval patrick. john and july juliette, we have been covering this all night. it started in boston, watertown, waltham, cambridge, do not leave your house. stay in your house. do not open the door unless you see a clearly identified police
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officer and there we heard governor patrick, he expanded it even more. the entire city in boston. the entire city of boston, residents being asked to stay in your homes, do not open the door, unless you see a clearly identified police officer. remarkable turn of events. >> tom fuentes with us, former assistant director of the fbi. have you ever seen anything like this? entire city, major metropolitan area, everyone told to stay home? tom is not with us right now, juliette. this is affecting and yyou and family. are you from boston. >> this is unprecedented. this is being done in the utmost caution, this is to keep people off the streets. public safety officials do the one thing that we want them to do, which is, of course, to find the second suspect. disconcerting. disconcerting for people who are from boston, but it's being done
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with the utmost caution and unprecedented in modern history. >> there is a lot going on, we're getting a lot more information right now about the two suspects. one dead, one alive. this information coming to us from deborah ferrick who joins us from watertown. what's the latest? >> reporter: to update you, they are two brothers, the two men, the two suspected marathon bombers, two brothers believed to be 26 and 19 years old. we have their names, not rele e releasing them right now. they fled chechnya several years ago during the conflict and went to kazakhstan and that's where they were staying before they came to boston. they are muslim. the older, one killed, did not drink, did not smoke. went to bunker hill community college. he took a year off, into boxing and also martial arts. so he is the one who was killed.
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big concern, when he was killed, he seemed to have explosives on him. big concern is whether he was killed by a law enforcement officer during the chase, during the car chase that took place last night or whether he had an explosive on him that detonated. self-detonated himself. with his brother. they were tight, they were traveling together, they had stayed hidden for three days together underground. nobody apparently seeing them or knowing who they were if they did see them until photographs were released. the white hat, the 19-year-old, on the run. a lot of information developing very quickly. there may be a website, there may have been a website in a russian language. we are looking into that right now. the older brother, who has been here a number of years, posted on his own website, i don't have a single american friend. i just don't understand them. all of this --
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>> thank you. we'll update later. thank you. >> a couple of things, there are port-a-potties and we're bringing in water. >> we missed that. we'll update. deborah, are you there? >> yeah, i'm here. can you hear me? jake? >> i apologize for interrupting. >> no worries. no worries. >> deb feyerick, can you hear me? >> jake, can you hear me? >> yes, please proceed. i apologize. >> okay. sorry. not at all. so the two brothers are traveling together, of course, right now the very big fear is that younger one may be desperate. up since midnight. on the run. you can see he's so outmanned. thousands of law enforcement personnel on the ground.
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he is believed to be in this area. we have seen troops, national guard, whether to secure the perimeter, but all of them heavily armed. we're learning a little more about who these two brothers were. one thing that law enforcement is telling us, as a terror source, look, we cannot make the leap and say these two young men were radicalized in chechnya. that raises it to a whole new level and that's a big fear. they are looking whether they were radicalized here in the united states. that's the bigger question. and if they were, how, and why? all of that under investigation. just because they were from the russian caucus of chechnya doesn't mean that's where the whole thing started. in boston, whatever they did or did not or why they wanted to do this, why they were thinking of dog thi doing this, that's the big
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unknown. no known motive. >> one of the thing our security analysts are pointing out, the fact he was enrolled in a university could be a treasure trove of data points to investigate how he was living, what he was studying, what he was doing while he was here. investigators no doubt looking into that at this very moment. as they continue this manhunt, under way in watertown and the surrounding areas. let's go to don lemon, on the ground in watertown. don, what's happening where you are? >> just as you guys were talking to deb, earlier we saw three buses of police officers. seven buses i counted of police officers on boston public transportation buses. going into watertown, into this 20-block area that they have basically essentially blocked off. really the entire town of watertown is on lockdown. we have seen the national guard coming in to watertown as well to look. police officers door to door. i imagine they will be part of that. to lockdown the particular town
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of watertown. go door to door. we have been reporting all morning. people told to stay in place. to be locked in place here. do not let anyone in your home unless you know it is a police officer, unless you know it is a member of the armed services. you have to look for identification and check identification. speaking to police officers here as they tell to us be careful. this suspect, they don't know what kind of ammunition he has, what kind of weapon he has. they know he has long rifles and they can go far and this person they believe is in the area and he feels like a trapped animal. and they don't know if he wants to go out in a hail of gunfire. they are telling the media, only people allowed on the streets to be particularly careful and safe. seven more buses of police officers going into watertown and just a little bit earlier, we saw a bomb disposal device as
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well, a truck with a huge ground of circular ball on the back where they put whatever device it is inside and detonate it. we saw that go in here as well. again, unprecedented. i have been doing this 20 some years and never seen anything like this. an entire town and now the entire city of boston on shelter in place. unbelievable, john and jake. >> don lemon, thank you in watertown. we have seen buses filled with police officers driving behind us all morning. an extraordinary site. thank you so much, don. >> one of the things we've also been hearing about. we've heard at least one or two of these, these controlled detonations, controlled explosions, because these two brothers, one now dead, one on the lose, used explosives however expertly, there are a lot of fears of explosives being scattered throughout the city. we've heard of one or two controlled detonations by police, finding packages, suspicious packages that they
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didn't know what they were, getting rid of them, per the bomb disposal unit. we know brothers according to police were using explosives last night. we're told by law enforcement officer that the brother, suspect number one, now dead, is thought to have had explosives on his person in some way every a suicide bomb, holding explosives. we don't know. the thought is he had it on him, which is one of the reasons why suspect number two thought to be so deadly. nobody knows what kind of ordnance he has on him, whether it's a gun or some type of explosive. we want to find more about chechnya in a minute. but before we do that, one of the facts before deborah freyer freyerick's great reporting. we want to report the name of the dead brother right now. several sources tell cnn the dead suspect identified as
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tamerlan sarnias, age 26. the one being sought is sfwlnch zokar sarnias. i'm probably botching the pronunciation of those names. one of the things we know, these procedure brothers are from chechnya. doesn't mean they were radicalized from chechnya at all. it could be they came here, self-radicalized. all that is is the ethnicity. >> phil, what can you tell us about the situation in chechnya, russian/chesh nkn russian/chechen relations. >> the situation in chechnya is reasonably stable. chechnya and the region around it has been the source of an islamist insurgency for something close to 20 years now.
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two brutal wars in chechnya to put down an islamist separatist movement which it has effectively done. ever since putting an end to separatist ambitions from people who wanted to establish their own chechen state, break away from russia, russia crushed that movement, but there is an ongoing insurgency with chechen fires, dwithin the region, islamist insurgents and terrorists, who have been regularly staging attacks, brutal, effective attacks in moscow and other parts of russia. the latest was in january 2011 at the airport. where a bombing there killed more than than 30 people. throughout the 2000s, regular attacks, some truly spectacular. in 2002, a siege here in a moscow theater where 800 people
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or so taken hostage for a number of days and more than 100 people killed when the theater was stormed and put an end to it. there is a history of russia dealing with a terrorist threat. the regions surrounding chechnya now there, is an ongoing conflict with russian soldiers, russian security services, russian police regularly fighting and often dying in armed battles with insurgents who continue to pose a threat to the security of this country. >> all right. phil block in boss cow, thank you so much. >> even though the brothers, now dead. we've begin their names. one on the loose. even though they are from chechnya originally, we have no idea their motivations of now. we can suspect them, but we don't know them. we don't known they have
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anything to do with chechnya, their religion. we just know one is dead, one on the loose. one other fact before we go to joe johns. is bunker hill community college, one of the things we know for sure about the brothers. one who was killed, the older brother, 26 years old. attended bunk every hill community college, studying injury. all i know is about bunker hill community college, that's where robin williams taught in "good will hunting." tell me about bunker hill community college. >> it's a familiar sight for a lot of people, a lot of prestigious universities, a lot of them very expensive. if you are from around here, locally, a very good place to get an education for a lot less money. i think it's safe to say that. >> jake, i think it's so important to reiterate what you are just saying. we know so little about them and their notevation and what they are connected to some
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international historical debate between chechnya and russia. their religion, not necessarily tied to that. there will be a lot of things unearthed about these two. clearly planned something horrible. whether it's tied to their religion or where they are from, that's just guessing. >> we know that these are sociopaths and they are horrible, horrible people. >> and terrorists. >> beyond that, we don't know. i want to go to joe johns in the washington, d.c. bureau, he'll talk about the latest in the law enforcement, crime and justice correspondent. what have you learned? >> in keeping with the theme, we have determined a little more information from our law enforcement source about the level of desperation and chaos in that area.
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one law enforcement official says they may have been brothers, but they carjacked a car, there was a fire fight as we know and according to law enforcement source, one brother actually drove over or hit the other brother with the car they carjacked after the fire fight occurred. one brother runs over the other brother with a car in making his escape, and about that car, i was also told earlier this morning by law enforcement authority that officials say these two brothers, when they carjacked the car, they told the driver of that car that they were, in fact, the marathon bombers, so it gives you a little bit of a feel for the kind of chaos and desperation and craziness that has brought to us the point we're at now.
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back to you. >> joe johns, what detail there. one brother in the chaos of the other actually drove over or hit the other brother. the amazing detail. brothers identified themselves to the carjacked car driver, identified themselves as the marathon bombers, extraordinary. >> one big bit of news here, a development, we know that public transportation in boston suspended. people in and around boston being told by the governor and law enforcement to stay in their homes. schools are closed. universities closed. people told not to open businesses and now we've been told that taxi cab service in boston, taxi cab service has been suspended as well. as if there was any doubt that the city is on lockdown. now cabs are also off-limits. >> boston is closed for business this morning, as this investigation continues. i want to go to barbara starr,
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just joining us now. i want a sense of what the intelligence community is saying about the overnight and early morning developments. >> good morning. you know, we want to start where you have been all morning long. it is believed they have come from a suspect near chechnya, the break-away republic in russia. nobody says they are politically motivated by chechen origins at this point. nobody is saying that. the intelligence community is looking at this carefully, trying to figure it out. seeing if there are things they do need to know. was it politically motivated bit history of chechnya with russia? also, there are a number of chechen fighters over the years, affiliated with al qaeda, fighting throughout the war on terror. in afghanistan, in iraq, and now there are said to be many chesh know fighters in syria.
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again, we don't known that's related to this. but it is something that they are looking at. the whole history of the dissident, the militant movement in chechnya is something that u.s. intelligence community follows very carefully them will want to know. these two men, relatively young, were they sympathizers, were they of that i hadologideology? they are being looking at threads of that. up until late yesterday, all of the sources we were talking to said they couldn't find any evidence of an international link. they weren't ruling it out, but they simply had no evidence there had been no chatter, no discussion, no phone intercepts, no internet postings, now looking at the social media pages of these suspects, looking at everything one more time.
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>> barbara starr, we'll go to eric machado who apparently knew or knows the younger brother, the one still being sought. and i'll mispronounce his name. dzhokhar tsarnaev. how do you know him, tell us anything you know about him. >> i went to high school with dzhokhar. i knew him as dzhokhar. he graduated below me. he was good friends, worked at harvard university as a lifeguard. yeah, we partied, good high school friends, and a bunch -- all of my high school --
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everybody, we're all like in shock. there is no telltale signs of any kind of malicious behavior from dzhokhar. it's coming as a shock really. >> what town did he live in? can you tell us about his family? anything you may know about his life. >> well, we -- i live on columbia street which is just a street over from norfolk street, so, i mean, he lived literally maybe a block away from me. i mean, as far as i know, i didn't know his close personal family, but i mean, i knew dzhokhar, and he didn't show any malicious sign, no evidence that would lead any of to us really believe he would be capable of something like this. >> did you know his older
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brother. one that was killed in a fire fight with police officers? >> i did not know his older brother. i didn't even really know he had an older brother to be honest. >> what else can you tell us about dzhokhar? did he graduate from high school? did he have a job? >> he went to amherst, university of amherst, umass. i believe he is on break. he was on break at this point. given april vacation. yeah, he worked at harvard university i believe as a lifeguard i've been told from a friend of mine who is also a lifeguard. it's just really blowing -- social media everybody is kind of in shock that he would do this from the photos that the fbi had released, the way he wore his hat, that's the telltale sign of dzhokhar
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something, he would normally do, wear his hat backward. once i saw the photos i had an idea it was him, but you never really want -- i didn't want to throw somebody i knew personally under the bus and assume it was him. you know, it was more of a joke, oh, yeah, that looks like dzhokhar. clearly it was not a joke and should have been taken a little more seriously on my part and probably some of my friends as well. but kind of a shock. >> is there anything that you know from d sfwlnch hokhar's background, any horrific event in his life that might have led him to this horrible, horrible world? >> no, not that i can -- not that i can really point out. a friend of mine has -- we've been in contact this morning, and he told me that there was a conversation that him and another close friend of mine had
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had just recently, maybe six months to a year ago, in regard to terrorism, the act of terror, not being -- not being a serious issue if you come from a place that i come from. and i -- those comments kind of -- they obviously, a red flag in my head, if he's willing to say something like that, and, you know, the events happened recently would warrant something like -- it would warrant -- it doesn't really make sense and i don't want to put -- but, i mean, it's a lot, man. we all went to high school with him. and he would say hi to a kid, and just a normal kid and to think that, you know, he's capable of something like this is beyond belief. >> it's got to be very difficult. on the phone with a high school
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schoolmate at cambridge with dzhokhar dzhokhar. >> as far as i know, that was his name. we addressed him as dzhokhar. i can understand where the nickname comes from. >> did he ever discuss his background to you? where he was born, where he grew up before he moved here? >> no. that never really came up. cambridge latin, one of our slogans, my class implemented is diversity. we come from a very diverse school, so we have people from all walks of life. i mean, all parts of the world, africa, ethiopia, all over. i mean there are kids that represent every nation in this
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country, and so you never want to someone comes from a malicious background or something like that. i wouldn't say that ever spoke about anything that serious, you know. >> eric this must be a profoundly bewildering and horrifying turn of events for you. i have to say dzhokhar is still a fugitive. he is out there. we have no idea if he is watching us right now. if he is watching us right now, what do you, as a friend of his, want to say to him? >> man, dzhokhar, i hope -- i hope that whoever led him in this direction, i don't believe it was his own inklings, he was clearly pressured into this. man, just don't do anything
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stupid. turn yourself in if you are still out there. it's not worth it at this point. they are everywhere. i mean, i really just -- i hope he takes into consideration the families that were hurt by this and really considers his actions at this point. it's just terrible to see the tragedy that everybody has been faced with in the last couple of days, and kind of the emotion that the whole nation is under. the scared emotion that everybody is -- army, everybody walking around. and not something that people want us to feel in their every day lives. people want to be able to carry on and do certain things and things like this only bring fear into people's lives. it's terrible. >> it's got to be terrible for you, eric. you or any of your friends had any contact with him over the
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last several months? anyone who can identify where he has been or what he has been doing? >> me, no, personally i have not had contact with him. but i -- i know -- i know that he's -- you know, he was currently employed at harvard, so i would look to maybe over there. somebody who is, you know, a coworker maybe. i can't say that any of my friends, my circle of friends have been in close contact with him. i know a couple of people are followers of his on twitter. and vice versa. but as far as face-to-face conta contact, i can't say for sure. >> stay on the line. and we'll come back to you and talk to you more. thank you for sharing your shouts, your views and your history with dzhokhar, the
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fugitive wanted in connection with the boston marathon terrorist attacks on monday and then, of course, this iffhorrif manhunt. the federal aviation administration has issued temporary ceasing of flights over boston. 3.5 nautical mile radius. no trains or cabs in boston, you can no longer fly in or out. we'll take a quick break, right back to this increasdibly enorms breaking story. good morning rmg braeshging news out of boston. entire area. two big developments. first, the city of boston right now on lockdown.
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no public transportation. >> no means. >> the air space effectively shut down. two suspects in the boston marathon bombings. identified as brothers. from chechnya. jake you do a better job of pronouncing. >> tamerlan tsavraev, he is d dead. younger brother, 19 years old. dzhokhar tsavraev is he at large. we started out with a warning in watertown to stay in their homes, that expanded to other areas, including waltham, cambridge, and the entire city of boston. people being told stay in your homes. >> one of the things remarkable. we got off the phone who is a high school classmate of dzhokhar. he went to cambridge latin.
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a good public school in the area. >> a normal kid. knew nothing about this. didn't know dzhokhar had an older brother. seven years older than him. he didn't even know he had an older brother and he was convinced his friend, dzhokhar, now a fugitive. wanted for his part in the murder of three individuals. two during the boston terrorist attack and an m.i.t. officer last night. nice, normal kid and eric is convinced somebody led him into this life of terrorism. >> dzhokhar comes from chechnya. emigrated to boston. been here at least a few years. a door-to-door search in watertown as police like for
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dzhokhar this began with the fatal shooting of an m.i.t. campus officer. 10:20 p.m. right after that, a carjacking. the two suspects were in the car, there was a shoot-out with police in watertown, and the man identified by the fbi as suspect number one. we know that to be the older tsarnaev brother. he was shot. later died after being taken to a local hospital. he had exployives on him. >> the doctor told him he burns on him, bullet wounds. not clear which of those two horrible traumas killed him. >> elizabeth cohen on the ground very near where the suspect lived. what can you tell us? >> john, what i can tell you is just one block away is the street where dzhokhar tsavraev
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lived. norfolk street. and jessica metzker saw them coming out of the building with a woman. they weren't arresting him or apprehending her in any way, just speaking with her. we also have a neighbor -- >> guys, you got to come to us. listen, okay -- >> a jake, jake, jake, john. a huge band of cars, a helicopter in the air. smell of smoke in the air is definite. a huge presence, look at the cars coming, something just happened. we don't know what it is. i'm going to catch my breath. we don't know what it is. we smell smoke, people running to the center, cars going straight, cars turning to the right. whether they cordoned off this block, we can see a helicopter that is up in the air. something has just happened.
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police officers are running, we have a dog, dog on its way. interesting, that dog is barking. whether that's a canine, we don't know. we can smell smoke. we can smell -- there is something in the air. now passed over to us. something definitely went off. don't know what it is. okay. so now that you see what's going on around here and now that i catch my breath a little bit, we want to update you momentarily, additional information on the young man. let's take a look. i will actually let the pictures play out. let's take a look for just a moment. >> deb, jake here. can you identify the type of helicopter it is? an army helicopter, national guard, police helicopter? >> no, it looks like a police helicopter, jake. it definitely looks like a
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police helicopter up in the air. happened quickly, and the amount of presence that got to this scene, it was absolutely timed to the smell of smoke that we ourselves just experienced. so, again, a lot of activity. but, jake, i want to -- i don't know whether you have this in the system, but i want to update you on a couple of new pieces of information that we have received and have been cleared in his profile, the 19-year-old, the white hat man, wrote his world view is islam -- we're being moved. we're being moved right now. officer, what's going on? >> i don't know, but i need you across the street to keep you safe. that's what i'm doing. can you please go across the street? >> let's go portable for a minute. we'll walk across the street. we have a team here, jake if you can sort of follow us. my guys will take the stuff. jake, listen, so the world view, the world view on the web page is islam. that's what he says. his personal property is career
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money, but what is interesting is when you get to the section that says send a gift and that gift according to the website is you see a picture of tnt, a second picture of tnt then you see a brick and a third picture of tnt. sort of icons, emoticons on his personal website. we are moving back, a little bit of chaos. bear with us. then when you click on, it also says another send a gift and in the second page, have you a picture of the sun, then three cop cars, now whether that is a suggestion, whether that is an indication of what he was thinking, two sections on send a gift, tnt, the second section on send a gift, police cars. so that's a couple more pieces of information. that we've got right now. moving back as you can see. and i think what we're going to do, jake, we're going to send it back to you. unless you want to stick with
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us. it's your call. >> deb, one second here. clearly there is something going on where you are in watertown right now, the police interacting with you, asking you to move. just reset for a second. explain to us when this latest round of activity started, and exactly how it unfolded? >> okay. so we were -- we were standing here and all of a sudden we saw helicopter, helicopter come into focus and we focused up on the helicopter and as we did so, we smelled -- we didn't hear anything. maybe have been because of the sound of the helicopter drowning everything else out, but you can see the helicopter there up in the sky. and that's when i began to smell the smoke. the smoke very definite. and a huge presence of automobiles. >> deb, while are you talking. i just want to show -- i want to explain to the viewers, we're looking at live pictures of some major law enforcement activity going on in watertown,
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massachusetts, right outside boston. the watertown area is where dzhokhar, the younger brother, last seen by law enforcement officials and apparently some major activity going on. you heard some sort of explosion. smelled smoke. a huge rush of police into the area. trying to see what exactly that vehicle. >> some sort of assault vehicle. >> up armored assault vehicle in the area. you saw an army helicopter. >> there is the helicopter right now. >> a police helicopter rather in the air. i want people to know what exactly they are looking at. civilians and the media are being escorted even farther away from the action, and with that -- without explanation, deb, please continue. i'm sorry to interrupt. >> the one thing we want to clarify. we didn't hear anything and one of the reasons we may not have heard anything is because all of a sudden we saw the presence of the helicopter, looks to usz
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from our vantage point to be a police helicopter. saw the helicopter, first helicopter we see. we pointed that out earlier and we were talking amongst ourselves. kind of strange there isn't any sort of air surveillance, the helicopter and began to focus on the helicopter and you can see, it's stationary, seems to be hovering over a particular location, we don't know whether this is eyes in the sky, we don't know whether it's giving realtime information to guys on the ground. but the possibility is clearly likely or possible i should say. but once that helicopter got in the air, we realized there was a distinct and heavy smell of smoke. we don't know what it is. and this puts it in perspective. there could be there was a device that was found and detonated. could be something more. all of a sudden, a massive rush of police cars and vehicles that weren went to the distinct area. in law enforcement terms, they
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squared the block. some straight, some to cordoning off a particular area, the area where you can see the helicopter in the air. whatever it is seeing, it's seeing what's going on in real time. we have s.w.a.t.ss, tactical guys, in full gear, hands on the barrel of their guns, not the barrel, the base of their guns, and they are all at high alert, jake. so this is all unfolding now. and taking a deep breath, see if i can smell anything more. i don't think i can. >> the wind shifted. >> the wind definitely shifted. >> gabe gamirez up all night, saw the arrest of somebody later released, says the wind has clearly shifted. we have moved back. we'll get more of our stuff and actually, if i can send you out there to get the rest of the stuff, that would be great.
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and we'll clear out so they don't have any bags they need to worry about. again, we're showing you what we're experiencing. experiencing it live with us. >> obviously very large law enforcement presence where you are, deb. a lot of activity. we're looking at pictures that i believe are behind you of that vehicle walking in and heavily armed officers right there. a man in a flak jacket. they are moving you back from the scene. any indication of what kind of activity is going on? >> no. no. they are not. they are not. they are not giving us any sense of what's going on, and, you know, now as i'm looking there is a black backpack under the tree and clearly you can't look at a backpack without being nervous. one thing, keeping an eye on the
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situation, if you hear something -- >> holding the guns. over the rooftop. >> jake, john, can you see? we'll delay this? we want to delay this. we're on a delay signal, correct, guys? we're on a delayed signal, correct, guys? we're on a delayed signal, correct? >> you know, we're going to ask you -- >> guys -- >> we need to cut away. we need to cut away. >> i want to make sure viewers know -- >> that's fine. we want to make sure viewers know that we are filming this, but are you not watching it precisely live, we're putting on delay so that we don't show anything inappropriate and we don't show anything unduly violent, anything that compromises security. >> watertown, massachusetts. developments happening all night. the town where the shoot-out was, where one of the suspected boston marathon bombers was hit,
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and we're taking to the hospital and later died. this is watertown, massachusetts, the remaining suspect is believed to be at large right now. one of the two chechnyan brothers on the run. an enormous manhunt under way. enormous police presence. looking at pictures, which we are again delaying. we believe there is a lot going on right now. we want to make sure we don't do anything untoward. elizabeth cohen on the ground there, near a large majority of activity. elizabeth. >> hi, d sfwlnch h-- yes. i'm right here. so i'm right here in cambridge this is the town -- i'm in cambridge, the town next to boston. and a block down from the -- you may be able to see the yellow crime tape is norfolk street, where dzhokhar tsavraev lived.
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they have blocked off the entire block, filled with fbi personnel. you can see them everywhere and about a half an hour ago, jessijes jessica met sfwln tncmetzker, a, saw him walk in where he lived and bring out a woman. didn't appear to be apprehending her, didn't appear to be arresting her, but they were interested in speaking of her. i have with me, he has to go under the crime scene tape. peter hanley. you live a couple of doors down. >> five doors down. >> for the morning, we knew a lot was going on in watertown. we never expected it would come to us in cambridge. especially after last night's events and we were following things on tv, twitter, trying to inform ourselves. we knew that, you know, there was a lockdown going on, and the
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camp bridge police tweeted norfolk street was of interest. >> i'll tell you right now, live pictures of police activity in watertown. police activity in watertown. again, we're in cambridge where dzhokhar tsavraev lived. >> a knock on the door this morning and a quick call, it's time to evacuate. myself, my three housemates quickly grabbed what we had. i think my housemates is in pajamas somewhere out here on the street. we got out as quick as we could. >> frightening. >> yes, a little too close to home. but it's -- we'll do whatever we need to do to help the police. it's unexpected. great little neighborhood. everyone really friendly. diverse neighborhoods. i -- i looked at those photographs last night. this guy did not jump out at me as somebody living on our street. there are families, young
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professionals. this is not a guy i recognize from our street. >> this is a very dense neighborhood, as you said, people from all over the world. you're from ireland. >> yes. >> people don't jump out. everyone looks like they belong here. >> it's true. it's true. and, you know, as i said, a very diverse neighborhood. friendly place. i have lived here for four years. >> peter hanley, thank you so much. back to you. >> elizabeth, we'll come back to you. we'll come back in a second. to brooke baldwin, a block away on the phone. brooke, what are you seeing? >> i am staring down the street, norfolk street, where the two suspects apparently lived, and a 40s man, perhaps the father. i'm staring at a huge swarm of black suvs, just in the past couple of minutes, fbi agents out of the car, we've seen guns, walking down norfolk, walking toward the scene, but we cannot access. to set the scene, there are
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dozens of members of the press sort of watching and waiting to see what's going on. we've been watching agents go toward this home, toward this aarmt, we have seen families, babies, dogs, being walked away, we know this whole area has been evacuated. two things i want to get across. i'm staring at an ambulance at the very end of the street. is someone in it? i don't know, lights are blinking, and also a big black suv that actually now pulled away. blinking as well. and a colleague here saw someone handcuffed placed in the car and that suv is now gone. in addition to police, jake, a number of fbi have rolled up on the scene in the last couple of minutes. huge scene here. >> we're seeing, brooke. looking at pictures of a lot of law enforcement activity on top of roofs, armored assault vehicles or law enforcement vehicles heading to the scene.
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we saw deb freyerick. >> we'll go to deb on the scene in watertown. breaking away from brooke in cambridge. what are you seeing? we're looking for live images to come through. law enforcement officials on roofs. >> what i'm being told plim ar i. they are look at perhaps an associate or someone known to this particular individual, to the white hat man, not clear whether he is the one inside, but clearly there is somebody some thing of interest in that home. whether it may be a place where they were hiding, whether they just happened to be there. why they ended up in this particular area, that is a big question. i've also told they are being especially careful. we earlier reported that, in
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fact, the older brother, the 26-year-old guy in the black hat, he had something of a device on him. some sort of an explosive device, we're also told there was a trigger attached to the device that he was wearing. that raises things up considerably. whether, in fact, he meant to detonate or planning on detonated. that totally changes the game. that's why they are being extra special cautious in terms what they are doing now, this whole area has now been blocked off this is a complete frozen zone, as law enforcement does exactly what they have to do, what they are trained to do, again, doing it very cautiously. clearly one of the big concerns, they have got -- if somebody is in that house is monitoring the situation, we don't know the seriousness of the level of who is in the home, bt, again, we have the helicopter, law enforcement, people on the roof and they -- they seem to be standing down just a little bit.
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whether that situation has been resolved, we don't know. we're sort of watching this as are you watching this and trying to be careful of when we are showing people pictures. clearly if they are inside monitoring, we don't want to be giving out or giving away the tactical situation here on the ground. but, again, everybody is standing, everybody is waiting and we are just watching this play out, jake and john. >> all right. deb freyerick in watertown. monitoring developments that appear to be happening before her very eyes. >> we should remind viewers, we have activity coming in from watertown on delay because of the violent nature of what could potentially happen on the scene. we have law enforcement officers with guns drawn. we have a very fluid situation, explosives have been used both on monte boston marathon terrorist atatacks last night.
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but when police pursuing the two suspects in the boston marathon terrorist attacks. suspects used from the older brother, 26-year-old is dead. is he the one wearing the black hat in the surveillance photograph. that police released yesterday. he is dead. not yet known whether he was killed because of bullets in the shoot-out or because of explosives on his person, but it is known he did have explosions and burns on himself. >> a little more about what we know about him and the two brothers. they are from chechnya. and they emigrated from there. maybe through kazakhstan, came to the united states. been here at least a few years. older brother, a student at bunk every hill community college studying engineering. the younger brother, talked to a high school classmate of him a short while ago, and, this classmate described a normal-seeming kid. >> and the classmate with whom we spoke said he couldn't
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believe it and he had to believe that somebody led dzhokhar, the fugitive, 19-year-old young man on the loose, being pursued by thousands of law enforcement officers ranging from fbi to counterterrorism officials to local police. this 19-year-old, eric believed he to have been led into this life. >> he's being pursued by a large number of people in a very wide area now. the city of boston is essentially shut down. public transportation closed. no subways, no taxis, no buses, no amtrak. air space is also closed down. logan airport is still open, but check with your air carrier to make sure your flight is leaving. current air spaces are currently closed. people in boston being told to stay home. people in surrounding towns being told to stay home. do not go outdoors, businesses not currently opened. we're joined by juliette kayyem.
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>> actually, i'm sorry. we have new news from the scene in watertown, where there is this incredibly powerful scene going on with law enforcement. what is going on? >> we're watching this play out. a number of scenarios that law enforcement has to be very prepared to handle. for example, if the home that they are looking at. if the location they are looking at, a potential safe house, has it been rigged? booby trapped? an associate of somebody known to these two brothers? they are approaching this very carefully. they don't quite know what to expect. also we know that on this the -- on the younger brother's website, the white hat website, he has seven followers and we are told that -- and i want to show you something actually while i interrupt myself, in that car and we've seen a number
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of these vehicles, the canine vehicles that are coming, that's at least the third canine dog that has come to the scene to scout out this location, we've seen at least three, and as those dogs got close to the scene, they began barking, barking very, very loudly. they may be smelling what we thought we smelled, probably within the last 30 minutes or so. unfolding quickly. right now everybody seems to be in place, and so we are just -- we are just watching. eyes in the sky as police helicopter circles overhead. that's where we are, jake and john. >> a lot of activity right there. right in front of you, deb. obviously law enforcement personnel being incredibly careful with the situation. as you said it could be incredibly dangerous. no way of knowing whether these residences that they are search doing be booby trapped in any way. explosives have been used.
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jake noted, clearly used on monte boston marathon. last night during the car chase, law enforcement personnel tell us explosives being tossed from the car. we know the suspect that was killed, he signs of explosives on him, may have been an explosive device that killed the young man. the older two of the chechen brothers. >> a massive hunt for the second brother. in lockdown in boston. this is precautionary, because you don't want people moving around and sort of messing up all of this public safety activitying if on. i make it clear that not everyone is under threat in boston this is precautionary. two brothers, fro chechnya. we don't know their motivations, their ideology, whether they have ties to other organizations or anyone abroad, are responsible for the bombings here and a lot of mayhem last night, including the death of a police officer.
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so -- and there will be a lot of activity here today. there will be bomb detonations or safe detonations, evacuations. it will happen until we find this person, he will probably be found relatively soon. there are about 9,000 police officers working this right now. pretty confident about that. in terms of why they did this, this is where it gets really too early to say. that they are from a certain part of the world or they have a certain religion it really is something that we -- we just don't know. they could have very possibly self-radicalized and then planned this on their own with no ties to anyone else or one or two other people. but foreign conspiracy, there is no proof of it yet. >> former assistant fbi director, thought we had tom fuentes, we do not have tom fuentes. >> you are not questioning anything about other than how
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big the network is. is certainly seems these individuals are islamic terrorists. >> well, yes. those are two separate words at this stage. i think after 9/11 we have this fear of tying a muslim with terrorism. we shouldn't do that. >> we don't know if it's a network or -- >> here is my -- exactly. but the evidence is this robbing of a seve7-eleven, the fact tha wasn't a suicide bombing, makes you think they didn't have a lot of support from a huge financial network. you don't rob 7-elevens if you have a master plan. >> one of our law enforcement personnel, joe johns, thinks they had a very good plan up to the bombing, but not much of a plan afterward. >> a bit like an arsonist, they like to w

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